TGGuide TeaRoom Chat
Sun 02/02/97
... Transition Issues ...
Thanks to Rosie for editing this chat to archive format!
There are 513 posts in this document
OUR HOSTESS FOR TONIGHT
RANDI DENNIS
Randi
Evening all!!!!!
Teri Leigh
I'm here, Randi.
Randi
Welcome all to the SUnday night chat!!!!!!
Teri Leigh
I think it's just the two of us, right now, Randi.
Randi
Tonight we are talking about transiton.......and all that goes with it
Teri Leigh
I just put on a pot of coffee. I'm settled in, dear.
Randi
there will be some others coming on board
Kristen (Toronto)
Hi Randi. Glad to be here.
Randi
same here.....grabbed my orange juice
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
hi all - sorry to be late ...
Kristen (Toronto)
Hi Heather.
Teri Leigh
Hi, Heather and Kristen!
Kimberly
I made it! (although I've already told most of my story this evening to Malana over at SL)
Kristen (Toronto)
Hi Teri Leigh and Kimberly. Lots of questions tonight.
Randi
Kristen welcome hon...before we go a couple of ground rules...nothing is out of bounds especially with this subject....but we do not need to be well terse with the lanuguage
Teri Leigh
May I say to start that I really think that there is really more to this than Lou Reed said about "Plucked her eyebrows and then he was a she" *grin*
Randi
Heatheer Hi hon and very nice pic sis!!!!!!!!! Kristen fire away hon!!!
Randi
True Teri.....but that was more or less what is considered the quick and dirty view
Teri Leigh
Or "I went to an all girls school...I borrowed my sisters shoes". *grin*
Kristen (Toronto)
Transition begins with hormones. I am seeing a doctor who is sending me for blood tests tomorrow. She said there are several degrees of hormones that I can take to reduce testosterone or not. Should I go for the drugs that eliminate testosterone or not.
Randi
much like a male putting on a dress and 'vavavoom ' he is consdered gay
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
I think there are lots of ways to approach Transition, but I really think you have to make some plans beforehand to do it with any degree of success.
Kimberly
Yeah, sure hurts to pluck out those darn moustache hairs (only kidding, but I have grabbed one just to see how bad, YEAOWCH!)
Kimmie
Hello
sandy
Hi all, sandy is here. I'll be listening mostly. Might
have some questions, later, depending upon what comes up.
Thanks Randi/Heather.
Teri Leigh
Ok...no more bad jokes. *smile*
Randi
Kristen as with any new medical therapy the lower dosages are what to start with...as to get the body used to the changes
Randi
for the most part, your doctor will start you out with a low dosage..........Welcome Kim, Sandy, Kimberly
Kristen (Toronto)
The doctor said feminisation could be done with estrogen alone. I am seeking SRT for the future. Is it a good idea to take a progesterone with the estrogen.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
I don't think you need to plan on hormones as soon as you start transition
Kimberly
Kristen, I can tell you what my doctor has done and that was 100 mg a day of spironolactone which if you didn't know is an androgen surpressor
Teri Leigh
The issue that concerns me most is rather political, I think..."to pass or not to pass. That is the question"
Randi
Heather you are right there is no set way to define how one can start their transition...this is as is a lot of this an individual decision
Ashley
Good evening, Do you mind if I listen?
Kristen (Toronto)
Heather, Randi, Did you begin transition living full time as a female?
Randi
Kim you have gone through the medical part of this before then I take it???
Denise !!
Lurking...
Randi
Me I was living part time on the weekends a year after I moved to Seattle....that was in 91.....this was a way for me to see if I would be more comfortalbe beyond just 'dressing for fun'
Kimberly
Which Kim Randi?
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
I made plans to start transition after 2 years - during that time I started getting as much electrolysis as possible while my income was high ...
Randi
And as the weekends went by I found myself much happier living as a female but more depressed during the week
Kimmie (Florida)
Not Kimmie! I am just an interested crossdresser (in the closet at that)
Randi
That was for you Kim from Ct.
Jessi
Hello all
Kimberly
The only meds I've had are the ones I was started on yesterday, before that I have had development but it was spontanous and help finally confirm that I should go about doing this
Randi
Kimmie **HUGGGSS**** ...keep in mind here that I started transitioning while working for a photo lab...which is not one of the nicer places to do so
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
well, I think you need to make an honest apparaisal of what is wrong or lacking in your role before you switch over, so you can do it as smoothly as possible. For me, it was the beard and my voice was attrocious - mso, I knew I had to work on getting my beard down, and finding a better way to speak/get voice lessons.
Randi
Kim understood sometimes mother nature tells us this is right
Kimmie (Florida)
Might I ask if any of you were married when you decided to transition?
Kristen (Toronto)
Financially, I cannot afford to live fulltime right now as a female. I have to work as a male and begin HRT and electrolysis to begin the feminisation. I do pass dressed en femme. The difficulty will be when my body begins to look more female than male. I guess this is when I will have to give up my job.
Kimmie (Florida)
Why must you give up your job, Kristen?
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Kristen - thats one reason to get the subtle stuff like your beard cleaned up before you start hormones
Randi
here it was a matter of getting beyond the idea that this 'not socially acceptable' as opposed to what was socially acceptable
Kristen (Toronto)
I'm 39. I don't want to wait more years than I have to to effect a change. When your mind tells you that you are female, it is difficult living the lie of being a guy. And I work in education. They aren't very tolereant of transsexuals. I hope to find work as a woman.
Teri Leigh
Does it start with HRT. I really don't think that I can wait all that Long. I am in the VA system which will take months before I even can start. I am so anxious. I really want to start dressing androginously now. I have lost so much hair, but I know that HRT will bring back some. My change in outward appearance will be very gradual. And slow. Passing I am now finding was really just an unrealistic fantasy. Maybe someday it will happen, but for the near future I will stand out in a very conservative german catholic town. Any thoughts on this?
Randi
Kimmie as you know marriage was not in the cards...not at that time...
Kimberly
Hmm, electro is one thing I probably should have done before starting HRT, but I am planning on it this weekend coming up, not that I have much to clean off, my voice is really my big problem, even with the Melanie Phillips tape I seem to have more difficulty in that department than all others.
Randi
Transition in my view starts when one realizes that this is aprt of them....not something to be supressed
Kristen (Toronto)
Yes, voice is another matter. I heard there are operations to bring the vocal cords into the higher register. Any thoughts?
Randi
ooops that was meant to be part
Kimberly
Married, no, not me. I did want to marry someone way back in middle school whom everyone including myself always thought would have been the perfect couple, it's just something way deep inside prevented me from ever persuing it, I know now that I really was intended on heading down the path I'm now walking, I felt I couldn't do this to her or kids if it were to have gone that far.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
its not that you HAVE to give up your job, but you should plan for any contingency - Transition east money, so the more you can do before you get 'public', the better ...
Randi
they may or may not necessary...the voice can be changed through therapy
Dianne
Kristen, I heard a T* who had voice surgery and just hearing her made me realize that the prople who did the voice surgery did her a disservice. She sounds terrible as is she has ;ost most of her voice. She did not sound female at all. I would stay far away from it until they perfect the method.
Kimberly
I've read much on the vocal surgury and apparently it's very risky and doesn't have a good success rate. I almost fear that if I can't get my voice right that it or no voice at all might be the only option.
Dianne
Kristen, I heard a T* who had voice surgery and just hearing her made me realize that the prople who did the voice surgery did her a disservice. She sounds terrible as if she had lost most of her voice. She did not sound female at all. I would stay far away from it until they perfect the method.
Teri Leigh
That's just it. I can't any longer supress it. It goes beyond clothes and voice though. Now that I feel fully comfortable with myself as a woman, I find it very difficult to stay in the closet.
I know that I am going through a very awkward stage. No longer male. But no yet acting as female.
Randi
that is how I am doing it...and because of my work I can get in practice answereing the phones
Kristen (Toronto)
Is it possible to alter a male voice into a female voice through vocal exercises?
Kimmie (Florida)
Apparently it is possible to alter your voice thru exercise accoring to Melanie Anne Phillips.
Randi
the voice issue is kind of a segue to another part of the transition....that is getting the paperwork done and and making the apperance as close to female as possible
Kimberly
Work might be a difficulty for me in the coming months, I am already having problems that don't seem to be linked to my changing (and yes, they do know) I can easily get lousy jobs in minutes if I do have a serious problem, I have some freinds at a couple of places who'd recommend me, but I really dislike the type of work.
Kimmie (Florida)
Information can ge had at:
Web URL
Kristen (Toronto)
Yes, I have heard her voice. It is very high pitched. But was she that deep as a guy? How much can you bring a voice into the higher register.
Randi
Yes Kristen it is...case in point if you called my work and got me over the phone...you would hear a female.....but that is during the early part of the shift.....by the time 9:30 rolls around the voice is shot
Anymouse
But Kim, you would make a great hit woman !!! *giggle*
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Web URL this is a wav file of what I've done with my voice through training - no vocal surgeries
Randi
Kim what kind of work hon???
Kimberly
I have that tape for the voice (not the IFGE version, the one directly from her) it does seem like it will work, although she doesn't actually do her male voice as a comparison, she has a clip from when she was "david" as a demonstration. I have seen a show once though where there was a m 2 f who claimed to have found God and was deciding to change back and as she made the statement the virtually perfect female voice dropped into a very deep male voice rivaling mine in tone.
Randi
And I have heard your voice Heather.......and it is pretty
Randi
My sister in Seattle helped me out with part of the voice issue as well.....
Teri Leigh
I have worked in voice all my life. Pitch is not neccessarily the answer. Softness, dialect, and diction are much more important. Melody is very important. Everyone has a natural UPPER pitch in their voice.
With practice, it becomes quite comfortable. Learning to soften this, comes next. I have succeeded to this degree. Randi, has heard my feminine voice on the phone. With more practice in melody and dialect for me.
I think that I could pass as female to a GG. Dialect is very important. Most women were indoctrinated in this as young much more than men. "Ain't" is strictly verboten. Other words also. Women actually to SAY different things than men. And say them DIFFERENTLY.
Diction is very important. With melody, diction completes the study.
Kristen (Toronto)
Your voice is very feminine Heather. It gives me hope. Thanks.
Randi
which is why at the market or even when I got the liceense this past week....the voice does pass very well
Any mouse
Kim, I was joking about the Hit woman stuff !!! Sorry !
Randi
Heather talking to you has helped mine as well....
Randi
Kim....if you mind me asking what type of work did youre friends reccomommend?????
Kimberly
What kind of work am I doing now? Hard to say, I have no actual job description, this was because I was hired before the company structure existed, I basically process medical transcripts and do all the networking and transfering to the various medical facilities along with maintaining the systems there. The jobs I can get in less time than it takes me to log into the internet are food related (I used to be a McD's manager up until Aug 94, and yes my hair was the required super short length) and the people who used to work with me have virtually guarenteed an opening (can you say every time I go thru a drive thru I get begged to come back)
Randi
because what I reccomend initially is some behind the scens work so to speak.....there arestill employers who are a little leary re: us and the public
-
Anymouse
Here are some suggestions that Heather made a few weeks ago - they helped me out quite a bit...
1) Speak from the throat and mouth (not from the chest). That removes much of the deep harmonics.
2) Speak more clearly (enunciate)
3) Don't use slang or 'shortcuts'
4) Breathe into your speech (but not as extreme as marilyn monroe)
5) Vary the pitch of your voice through a sentence (not monotone)
6) The idea isn't to speak in an unnatually high pitch, the idea is to be just a faint bit higher than your male voice, but have room to pitch it higher and lower during the conversation - variation adds interest.
- and get a cheap tape recorder to practice.
Kimberly
(sorry for the long comeback, I wanted to be sure if you'd meant the work I was doing now or the jobs that I could get at a moment's notice)
Barb - South of Annapolis,Md
Is it true that we (t*) are not covered under any laws that would help/protect our jobs?
Jona
Hey Barb ... or BraB ... is that really you ?
Randi
ok....but if for the time being there is minimal contact......why would they have a problem [if any] with the transition?
Teri Leigh
That sounded very natural, Heather.
Randi
Hi there Barb!!!!!! Kim understood about the response hon..........
Jona (WA)
My Email
Opps - that was me...
Barb - South of Annapolis,Md
Yes Liz it's really BarB.
sandy
Heather, listened to your sound-track. You sounded very femme
on it.
Lurkin Liz
*giggling* How did you know it was me Barb ?!?!?!
Randi
The State of Minnesota has a law that covers us re: housing employment, etc....and is part of the constitution....Seattle has a minor provison with no teeth...Same with San Franscisco...the state of Oregon hprotects us re:employment and housing....Portland Or. has protections beyond that
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
I had very good training - 4 keys to a female voice - as Teri says, speak softly, but - speak from your throat and mouth, not from your chest
Speak clearly and enunciate well, no shorthand or partial sentences - women 'communicate'
speak with a hint of breathiness
speak with a hint of musicality, not a monotone ...
Jona (WA)
My Email
There are some large companies that actually have enough experience with employees transitioning that they have policies in place. I thought I would have to leave for another job in order to transition. It turned out that there were several in the organization who have transitioned before me...
Kimberly
My biggest problem with my voice is that while I was in the denyal stage I worked in radio and worked very hard at developing the biggest deepest voice I could (was also a defense mechanism when I was a skinny little thing always being picked on), I just have just become so overly used to the feel of it. I REALLY need voice therapy.
Barb - South of Annapolis,Md
Because of your perfume Liz
Randi - do we have any legal protection for our jobs?
Randi
evening Liz!!!!!!
Kimberly
I do those exact things anyway, in fact since learning from Melanie's tape about the sing-song effect, I realised that I was doing that as it was in my speech, I then use a more monotone sound in certain situations.
Dianne
Barb, unfortunately, as far as I know, transgendered people aint got no stinkin protection
Kristen (Toronto)
Heather and Teri, I just tried what you said. For the first time in my life, my voice sounded feminine. It's amazing. Thanks.
Lurkin Liz
Hi Randi !!!
If I vanish, it is cause this ^&(^&() putter is really acting up again !!
Randi
for the most part there have been those that have stretched the 64 civil rights act to include our community...however much of this is going to depend on the TYPE of industry...let's say you have a better chance of being protected in some parts of the communications or service industry vis a vis defense or traditional hard industrial employers
Randi
Dianne..we do have them especailly if we know where to look
Kimberly
Oh except the speaking from the top of the voicebox instead of the chest, that seems to be my downfall. &hr;
Randi, I have already discussed with work about transition and they have assured me that there would be no problem, I have no contact with the public aside from an occasional phone call, I fear that the problems I'm having with work might be related anyway, but they do seem to be more that the person in charge is on a power trip and needs to really find somthing more productive to do with her time (several memos lately about silly things such as cigarette breaks and spending time in the bathroom reading, both of which have nothing to do with me)
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
so did I, Kimberly - I had overexaggerated a deep male voice to make a then girlfriend happy ... I had to unlearn that as well get back to a prepuberty kind of voice - the problem most folks do is is try to pitch their voice too high - better to pitch a little lower and leave some room to shift up during normal speaking - Lauren Bacall and many other women have deep voices ... convince with speech patterns, not just high-pitch.
Randi
case in point...the industry my fiance and I are in we are not so much protected as we have proven our worth to our respective companies
Randi
Heather...exactly!!!!
Randi
I could not agree more
Teri Leigh
There are women who have very deep voices, but with softness, melody, diction and dialect they are just considered "sexy" voices. Best training is to listen to pros...telephone women, like Randi.
I love to call ATT and US West. I once had a years long phone relationship with a woman in LA in the telecomunications business. Her voice was very deep for a woman. But she was hounded by men on the phone from across the country.
Dianne
Randi, I agree with you exactly. The more you are worth to a company, the less likey they will be to let you go even if you want to.
Randi
Dianne, Barb...hope that answers your question
Kimberly
It's not a tone thing, I can hit high tones, I used to practice singing with mariah carey and modonna and such and I can do pretty much the pitch, it's just that I can't seem to do it in speech. The truth is I am just a very critical person and i know I'm being too critcal of my voice.
Kristen (Toronto)
Do you think psychotherapy is valuable during transition?
Lurkin Liz
bbiam
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Randi is RIGHT! Like any woman, we have to be super capable in our job to be 'equal' ... don't expect any special considerations because you are transitioning, just be capable. Expecting special consideration is too much like "male priviledge'
AT my last job, I never mentioned transition or any of it - I had explained it to my potential employer when I interviewed, and only then because eh had known me before and I needed him to be aware of the skills I brought to the job.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
bbiam - little girl's room.
Randi
By the by just as an illustration...I work fro Damark and for the most part I work with teenagers and those who are of very eclectic backgrounds........not to mention religious types...and here one earns the respect not because of who one is per se...but because of what one does.....and I am now in management.....and these people have no problems with me...eexcept that I am like Lombardi on the floor
Teri Leigh
Just don't try to force a pitch, Kimberly. That will only hurt your vocal chords anyway. Everyone has a NATURAL upper register to their voice. You can find it easily.
Just say, "Happy Birthday!!!" or "Cheese!!!" in excitement. Work with THAT voice.
Annie
Evening folks
Randi
Kim it will happen in time
Randi
Welcome Anne!!!
Kimberly
It's like I said, I know it's not pitch. I can hit those high notes, but that's not where my problem lies. It's the way I have been trained to project that is messing with me. I need to learn how to do it from the voicebox and not the chest.
Randi
and how are you ????? Welcome to the Sunday Night Chat
Annie
What's the topic then?
Kimberly
Hi Annie! (now there's another one with no problem with her voice)
Kristen (Toronto)
'll repeat my question. Do you think it is a good idea to be in therapy during transition? Or is it better to be part of a support group?
Denise !!
Jona, what type of "job protection" did you find with A large company ??
Randi
and how are you ????? Welcome to the Sunday Night Chat
Annie
Well I'm not exactly the best person to ask for vocal technique... smile
Randi
sorry about the Double post system problems TRansition is the tpoic , hon
Kristen (Toronto)
You've got a beautiful voice, Annie.
sandy
Randi, is that Vince Lombardi you are referring to *grin* ??
Randi
and all that goes with it.....just wondering those of us with shall we say androgynous names......has the voice issue caused problems for you???
Teri Leigh
Randi, did you go through an "awkward" stage in the beginning of your transition where you didn't pass at all. Was it as painful as most of us fear? Could you talk a little about that, dear?
Kimberly
Hmm, I don't really think I need the therapy (nor can I afford it) my p-doc thinks I do, I am in a support group though and although it's interesting, aside from gender concerns I don't seem to have much in common with the others in the group, another thing is it seems the average age is quite high and me being 30 makes me usually the youngest one in the group (except when that 17 year old was there)
Annie
Thanks Kristen! Just VERY lucky. If I hadn't been TS, an unbroken voice would not have been an asset!!
Teri Leigh
No, Randi, I can sing Elvis to a T*. *grin*
Randi
Yes...on the floor at work as a supervisor I sometimes act like Vince.....and it can be funny at times........which leads into another key in transition....maintaning one's sense of huumor in spite of everything
Kristen (Toronto)
Kimberly, I feel the same way. It's just those Benjamin Standards. I know how I feel. What's a person to do?
Annie
In the UK, initial therapy, and then monitoring is part of the deal with treatment.
This is to make sure that people remain stable or can talk through their problems.
I didn't like the support group route, because there was no-one my age there and
most of the group members were TV rather than TS.
Kimberly
Androgenous names? well if I went with my middle name ... in fact many times I say to people, I'm only changing two letters, the e to an i and then n to an m.
Jona (WA)
I have been told that they will work with me to address issues that accompany transitions, such as the bathroom problem. I'm fortunate that the Human Resources dept where I work have successfully handled a few other TS's who've transitioned before me.
Actually, I seem to be more worried about it than they are, because my job is very visable.
Randi
Teri as a matter of fact I did have some extremely awkward moments...as in just walking around the neighborhood....or going to the Safeway...by the by the pic that will be featured here is form the early part of transtiotion but that was after about 10 rolls of film 
Kimberly
I did feel it important to do all they asked up to the point of further counseling, if I can scrape together the money I think I will do it if only to just satisfy that little doubt I have that I might really need it.
Kristen (Toronto)
You are very lucky, Jona.
Randi
JOna that is also the key......human resources being in tune with the situation.....how are they handling your request hon???
Teri Leigh
I went through my childhood with the guys saying, "Terry???!!! That's a girl's name!!!". It was very demeaning.
Especially in that I already felt guilty about wishing that I were a girl. I learned (unfortunately) to fight back and challenge them physically. They ussually backed down and I gain respect for absolutely the WRONG reasons and that really screwed me up inside much more.
Kristen (Toronto)
Girls, do we ever end our transition or is it a life long process?
Randi
KIm there is nothing in my old name that could have been used
sandy
Teri, I hear you. {{{HUGS}}} for you dear.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
I do think transition is a short-time phenomena - but you still have to be on your guard once you've gottne used to being female all the time
Randi
LIfe long hon.....much like with every woman it is a life long endeavour.....we improve our looks our voice, etc
Annie
Names?... oh dear... In Scotland, fathers who want their children to grow up into important people have a habit of naming their children with 2 surnames. eg. Mackenzie Davidson, or Fergus MacKay.
My original name was not one of those, but a similar pattern. I therefore was ELATED to get rid of it!
Jona (WA)
Regarding therapy... For me, therapy has been useful and productive. My first therapist knew nothing about TS - the person I'm seeing now, however, has given me a great deal of confidence and new ways of seeing what I'm going through.
Randi
you are right Heather...but improving ourselves as women is lifelong
Annie
In day-to-day life, Kristen, I completely forget I am any different from any other woman, because I've been doing it so long. Only when I'm at home and relax (or go on the PC!) do I accept my limitations
Kimberly
I think it's lifelong. &hr; Teri, you bring up the reason I never use my middle name, something I never used to tell even when asked, BTW: my middle name is Rene which is my father's first name, they had planned on naming me that but my father put up with alot of tourture growin up having that name and didn't want me to have the same nor did he w3ant me to end up being called Junior.
Teri Leigh
I love that old pic, Randi. But I am considering dressing androginously without even a wig and waiting for HRT to begin restoring my hair loss. Just women's jeans and
shirt type tops. Land's End type fashions. I just really don't think that I can hold myself back until I move to Portland. As much as this scares me, going into a major depression would be much worse.
Kimberly
Where they got Ken from, I'll never know, not exactly a french-canadian name
Randi
Jona you are lucky hon!!!!! Many therapists tend to be rushing their patients
Kristen (Toronto)
It's a weird paradox. I've spent my entire life feeling like a girl but acting like a guy. Now I'm attempting to live my life as a girl while transitioning from being a guy.
Teri Leigh
John Wayne's real first name was Marion.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Teri - hormones won't restore hair loss. Hair that is not yet dead may come back, but once its gone its gone for good. I wore wigs for the first 3 years of my transition. Then I got a really good hairpiece and stopped wearing wigs.
Here is how I looked when I started transition ..
Randi
hmmmmm....well that was also with a slightly exagerated front end so to speak
Denise !!
Teri, that is precisley what I am doing,
Randi, Heather, how far do you ladies think that we will
get with that????
Jona (WA)
Randi,
Basically, it's up to me to decide on a timeline. HR will then arrange the meetings and do the prep work. I'd like to get more confidence at passing before committing to a date. My situation with my SO will probably affect the transition date more than anything else. On all other fronts, however, I'm moving forward.
Kimberly
Wait a minute, Marion Bobbitt? Wow, he ended up almost changing to fit it then eh? (Grin)
sandy
Kristen, sounds the same here: You said it much better than I could.
Kristen (Toronto)
It comes from the soul, Sandy. Thanks.
Randi
and what we have here is the current version I apologize about the size of the pic in advance Heather 
sandy
Heather, what's the difference between a "really good hairpiece" and a wig ??
Jona (WA)
I have to go fix dinner for my daughters now... I'll be in later, hopefully. Bye.
Annie
Pussycats!!!! Oh dear, Randi.. I'm a terrible cat-lover!... (Anne runs over to her cat and gives it a hug!)
Randi
and medication has not really helped....so for me as well hairpieces will be a necessity
Teri Leigh
Me too, Kristen. It's hating how I had to indoctrinate myself to act as a guy that eats me up inside. And I have to be self conscious of my real feelings and desired way of acting.
The SRS is only a small part of my transformation and even not that important to me. But my feelings and thoughts and vision of myself are what make me a woman.
And I am that already. I just want to hold on to the freedom to be who I am. It is learning to grab and hold that freedom that I call "transition".
Kimberly
Kitties! Yeah!
Kristen (Toronto)
Give your cat a hug from me too, Annie.
Randi
ANNIe those are two of our 3 kids......a hairpiece can and does blend in to compliment and can be made for the person...wigs are mass produced for everyperson
Kristen (Toronto)
You know it, Teri.
ClaireM
Amen to that Teri- Hello all!
has anyone here heard from those who are post SRS and what their lives are like
Annie
My transition was too different from most to be of any use as a example. Maybe if some of the younger girls were on....
(My cat has now been well-hugged and is lying by the fire)
Randi
Hello Claire and how are you????
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
here is what UI looked like xmas of 1984v - to show my unaltered hairline ... it receded more before I started hormones in 1991 ...
Kimberly
Aww, I was kind of hoping to get back that patch on the right side that was ripped out back at age 23. Hmm, how long of non-growth does it take before it's considered dead and not rogainable
Randi
one of ours is out here with us.....Heather...in your circle how have those in post transition been doing???
Kristen (Toronto)
Your pic didn't come through, heather.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
sorry, let me try again ...
ClaireM
Hi Randi- One girl over at Susans made the comment that she hated the term TS ( she's post op ). I have thought a lot about her statement, and it kinda hit home!
Randi
Claire scroll back and join on in
Randi
Claire...labels are not important..but it is used to define a state that one is in
ClaireM
Hi Kristen & Heather-
Denise !!
Rogainable ?? Does that stuff really work ??
If so, do I get the male or Female kind ??
Kimberly
Actually you can almost see how much is missing in this photo. Hmm, post-ops? I have met a couple and have read about many. The ones I met I didn't get to really talk to, and actually there might be a few at the group meetings that are post op but I don't know who, it's not exactly something I ask.
Kristen (Toronto)
Heather, I can't believe the metamorphosis that has occured with you. Were you that guy? WOW!!
Randi
Heather understood...but who was that????
Annie
Yeah, I'll only use that term to describe myself until SRS. After that, I'm just a woman who can't concieve....
Teri Leigh
That is me, Heather.
Randi
WOW!!!!!!!
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
that was me in 1984 -
Kristen (Toronto)
Annie, that's as it should be. After SRS, you are no longer a transsexual. You are a woman.
Kimberly
That is the same question I joked with my mother about rogaine, then I came up with "I guess I have to get both and mix them up"
Randi
I would put up mine, pre transition but I do not want Netscape to burn out
ClaireM
Annie-Randi- Understand your though.
Kimberly
Did anyone hear that loud thud just now, it was my jaw hitting the floor! Hard to believe, but I do see a family resemblence with your "brother" Heather.
Denise !!
I guss I shoud call thar 1-800 #, and ask...(duh
Randi
so I keep that one quiet
Randi
Has anyone here noticed that their lives have emotionally, spiritually etc. has improved since transition
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
I don't share that image very often, I remember seeing a similar image once from Melanie Philips, and being very grateful to see the world of the possible ...
Kimberly
Hmm, Ok, well this is mine pre-transition I guess. I'll have to get a picture of me pre-hormonal imbalance. Hmm, I should have had Nattie scan my old Wesleyan University ID of me at 21 when I was at the NYE party.
sandy
Randi, if you have it Handi, do it. (of course if you don't mind)
Randi
because there is a difference
Denise !!
Randi, I "have only just began",
However, my bloud presure has came down A bunch, to
normal,Im A lot more "melow" now...
Kristen (Toronto)
Heather, do you attribute your obvious beauty to HRT or did you require plastic surgery as well? I hope that's not to personal. But I think it's important as I consider all aspects of transition.
ClaireM
Randi- 100%! I use to be a very angry person. Unhappy and very down all the time. Tried three times to bail-out! Now I couldn't swat a fly.
Randi
no I do not have that one available..it is on my ID card from Wa. state
sandy
Randi, Of course there's going to be difference.
Annie
OK
Kimberly
Yeah, she has an Image of "dave" in a tub floating around on AOL years ago, and she has about a minute clip of dave in her voice video.
ClaireM
Hi Denise & Kimberly - and anyone else I've missed.
Teri Leigh
I consider myself that I have always been transexual and will die transexual. I will never disown my past.
I never grew up as a girl and spent most of my life as a man. Whether I get SRS will not change that. I do not believe that being post op (or in any stage of transition makes one qualified to define ME.
This is MY life. Different from anyone else's who ever lived. There are those sister's who have experienced what I am desiring to go through. These sisters I look on as guides. But I do not give ANYONE authority over my life (thoughts, feelings, dreams, desires, etc) no matter who they are.
If Christine Jorganson, herself, told me that I'm not transexual, I would simply ask her to mind her own business. And that is why I so dearly love Heather, Randi and the TG Guide. That is exactly how this chatline was setup.
Annie
Sorry... OK... this is me at 13 years old with dad, trying to go fishing.... Giggle if you wish...
Kimberly
Hi Claire!
Randi
Here it is a matter of being able to settle the issue and then being happier to live fully as a result
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
I have had no surgeries - I've been doing hormone injections every other week for nearly 5 years ...
this picture shows 6 months before hormones, compared to Sept 96 ... again, no surgeries ...
Denise !!
Re Hi: Claire !!
Randi
not giggling here
Kristen (Toronto)
I think it's cute, Annie. **giggle**
sandy
Well, I've enjoyed this "get together" greatly. Appreciate you folks sponsering/putting this on.
I'll probabally be getting off of here and maybe bopping over to one of the other chat line.
Thanks again {{{{HUGS}}}.
Randi
and a great looking person there on the left Heather!!!!!
Randi
Ok Sandy **HUGGSS** and you are welcome anytime
ClaireM
Go red/white and blue!
Annie
I wasn't a very boyish kid was I?
ClaireM
Hi Denise-Nice to see you again!
Randi
just one other little thing here about the transition and that is the paperwork...re:SSI etc....how has everyone handled it???
Kristen (Toronto)
Heather, it's just amazing. You say you've had hormone injections. Do you prefer injections to pills. The doctor I saw on Friday said she prescribes pills to her patients. I think injections are faster acting and more potent. What are your thoughts?
Teri Leigh
Those pics are true hope to me, Heather dear. *smile*
sandy
Thanks Randi, and all {{{POOOOF}}} from here.
Kimberly
Hmm, looks a bit neutral Annie. I mean I can look for attributes for either sex in that photo, whereas as a kid I did look male, a male with an odd figure, but still male (though my child voice was very much female, hmm role reversal?)
Randi
you were hon.....but don't see the resembelance
Donna
Good evening ladies
Denise !!
Claire, Thank's. Randi, just changed the name on the telephone
..., I understand that is the first step ??
Annie
(Last pic) This was me at 16.
Kimberly
No, the more I look at it Annie, you look very similar to my friend's daughter if she were darker haired. I take back what I said earlier. I guess I looked too quickly.
Randi
one day I will put my previous up but not now
ClaireM
Annie-Very cute! But don't just hate ties?
Kristen (Toronto)
Annie, you must have been very uncomfortable at sixteen, having to dress as a boy?
Annie
You should have heard my voice back then.... ohhh embarrassing at the time...
Randi
that is one of them....the big ones are the Licence, SSI etc....birth records and the like
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
my main reason for injections was that they are easier on the system than pills.
Secondly, I spent about $50 a year on the estrogen and needles.
Annie
That was my school awards presentation at 16. I was getting an English studies certificate. We all wore ties and blazers at my school...
Kristen (Toronto)
Heather, do you do your own injections or does the doctor do them for you?
Teri Leigh
Huh...$50??!!! Tell us more, Heather.
Denise !!
Randi, what do you recomend next ??
Annie
Oral hormones were prescribed for me, Heather, but then, again, my situation was different. My liver function seems to be undamaged, so I'm fairly happy with them.
Barb - South of Annapolis,Md
Randi/Heather - Thanks so much for the info. Right now I have
QWERTY on my forehead. Have to get some sleep. Look forwared
to reading the rest of the chat after you have set it up in the reference
library. Love you all! Ta for tonight. - BarB (Night Night Liz)
Randi
the SSI issue is an easy one but it must be done in person......using the new or lost SSI card form
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
I do them - last one was Friday evening ... strictly legit - I saw an endo, had blood tests and a physical (every year), and do exactly the dosage prescribed.
Denise !!
Heather is speaking the truth...
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Goodnight, Barb - rest well, sis ...
Kristen (Toronto)
Can I ask a silly question? In the next few weeks, I'll be going to the pharmacist with my first prescription for hormones. Did anyone have to explain to the pharmacist why a guy is getting female hormones. How do I handle this matter?
Randi
actully the SSI this will help as afar as employment is concerned...right on the heels of that the license...no one wants to get busted because of the masking laws or on suspicion of being a hooker
Teri Leigh
Heather, just how and where do you get a year's supply of estrogen for $50??!!!
Kimberly
I asked my doctor about injections, he only gave me the 1.25 horse pills and the spiro. but he did say "to start"
Randi
Here Kristen....no one cares..in fact Premarin is reccommended as the treatment for prostate cancer so do not worry
Annie
They shouldn't ask Kristen. The only time I get a look is at the chemist when they see my prescription. They know that Androcur and Premarin are only really sent for TSs. It's none of their business. Let them look. Just get your pills and go.
They too are bound by confidentiality the same way that doctors are.
Randi
no one here cares....
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
lets see - the bottle is $25 and contains 20 doses (40 weeks supply) needles are about a quarter a piece ... I get the prescription filled at Giant Pharmacy ...
Randi
Annie is right ...Barb if you are still here you a re very welcome!!! and come back next!!!
Annie
A new driver's license is a must, because it's great ID if anyone wants to check you out.
Denise !!
Randi, How shoud I go about the SSI thing ??
Teri Leigh
*dumb founded* Heather, did you need to get the script through an endo?
Randi
Kristen you will have not problems there
Kristen (Toronto)
Kimberly, are you taking estrogen, progesterone and spiro.
ClaireM
Question please? How many times did each of you have to see a gender specialist before he/she signed-off?
Teri Leigh
13 years, Claire.
Randi
Denise...first off if you got the name change papers bring those the SSI office.....fill out the new card or lost card section of the SSI card application....when you name is called explain to the clerk that this is the new name ...this will take all of about 1o minutes at the desk...the wait to get to the desk maybe longer
Annie
Signed-off?
Teri Leigh
Excuse me, Claire, 16 years.
Randi
CLaire did not see one here this was self directed
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
yes, Teri - I saw an endo and got a script - no insurance or anything ...
Stevie
Hi Girls.
ClaireM
Teri- Is that the rule or? My friend Debbie went once, and now has started HRT.
Randi
did this with the help of my sisters
Randi
as far as the medical is concerned I have a pre-existing condition so I have an internist anyhow...and he signed off on the hormones
Annie
What does signed-off mean??
Kristen (Toronto)
Heather, are you only taking estrogen? No progesterone?
ClaireM
Annie- To be approved for HRT in Missouri, you have to have a letter signed by a GS. Hence, signed-off.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
I met the man who is now my shrink about 13 years ago at a support group meeting, so when I started seing him a few years ago, he knew already that this wasn't a new issue for me, and he has been seeing TSs since 13 yrs ago, so he has a good grounding in the issues. He also counsels children of TSs with their issues ...
Randi
Denise hope that helps
Stevie
Has anyone had any personal experience with progesterone?
ClaireM
Randi- No such luck here. The nearest GS in eight-hours away, and costs a fortune if prolonged.
Randi
Premarin here
Randi
oh my have you thought of going to ST.L for that Claire
Denise !!
Randi, name change paper's ?? from A judge ??
Annie
I saw my GP in April 1987 about the physical stuff, had the tests, then she referred me to psychiatrist in June. Psychiatrist saw me twice and I started Premarin in August.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
nope, no progesterones, no spiro ... my understanding was that was the OLD Benjamin specs, when they tried to make us all simulate the female menstral cycle by shifting our hormones for 1 week a month.
Randi
the resources are there
ClaireM
Randi- Yes I have. Only fours to St. Louis. I need to make contact with the TG support group there and get a recommendation on a fair and reasonable GS.
Stevie
Heather: Have you been saticified with the results without Spiro?
I'm only taking estro myself.
Sandra 'Denise' L
Hello Friends! I have just returned from a brief bout with our good friend 'bump'.
Denise !!
Randi, name change paper's ???
Kristen (Toronto)
Heather, Randi, I've read that progesterone assists with breast development by creating milk ducts in the breast. And spiro reduces the amount of testosterone that competes with the estrogen. But you and Annie, too, have had wonderful results with just Premarin?
Randi
well the name change is handled by a judge in your home county......and you use copies of that for the drivers's license and SSI
ClaireM
Annie- I sometimes get a little miffed that I have to have a stranger certify me as a woman, after all I have gained and lost over the years. But I understand the system needs to be in place. Just hope I pass the test the first time. Can't afford the time or money right now.
Denise !!
Randi, Thank's !!
Randi
the results have me at an A+ so far...but I may change that with my next exam from the doc
Randi
no problem Denise......Claire....your time will come hon
Annie
No Kristen. My rather good results were because of a marked lack of androgens which caused the voice to remain unbroken and other stuff. Most MTF TSs have a fair bit of testosterone which fights the estrogens. The Premarins didn't have much to fight against, and when I took Androcur, that completed the job. My reaction is probably greater than most TSs
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
My understanding of hormones is that are risks associated with all of them, so the less I have to take, the safer I am ... I am chemically neutered, I have no doubt about that, just not sure what adding a testosterone blocker would do for me ...
Kimberly
I just did this for the first time on Friday, the person behind the counter seemed to be a trainee, but all she did was take my name and phone number and address for the computer, she didn't see the actual prescription (I don't think she did anyway) she seemd so unfamiler and nervous that it made it all that much more nerve-wracking. I did try to catch the pharmacists' expression but she was expressionless. (Ok, old reply, sorry, I just got knocked off by my ISP again, seems to be eevry 2 hours, I am considering changing ISP's especially since it took 20 minutes to get a line that would answer)
Randi
any time Denise
ClaireM
Has anyone had their vocal cords shortened, or a trach shave? I have a very ***sad*** deep voice which I've worked on, but still called sir on the phone.
Kimberly
That last message was a reply to Denise I think, I am so miffed about my ISP's lousy service within this past week that I forgot. I was a keystroke and a click of the mouse from sending it UGH!
Stevie
I've been on the patch for a year pluse. And I was wondering when Chemical Castration would occur
Dianne
Dianne Signing-off -- Sorry not prescription; I mean the Internet
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
castration occured within 6 months with the shots, probably more like 4 months
Randi
ooops that should have been anytime
ClaireM
Randi- Thanks for the encouragement! At 51 I am running a bit scared.
Kimberly
Tracheal Shave, hmm also something I'd like to know more about.
Randi
not here Claire
any mouse
Am I actually getting through, or are my messages being lost in cyberspace?
Randi
Claire...**HUGGGSS*** Dont worry hon...and you have our spport in all of this hon!!!!!
Annie
I took the Androcur as a preventitive, Heather. Suppose all this messing around with hormones had "kick-started" my androgen system, and I got some unpleasant testosterone effects! It was important this did not happen. (A long shot, but you can't be too careful!)
IMG SRC=
(My cat says Hi)
ClaireM
is there a method other than surgery to change the voice. Even an small change would help.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Calire - I'll be 43 on the 19th ..
Randi
Denise still here hon???
Kristen (Toronto)
How do we know when we have been chemically castrated? Are there symptoms?
Sandra 'Denise' L.
Sorry about that last UI message, but I suffered a system identity removal.
Stevie
I was getting a combination of Shots and patch. So far I haven't gotten to that point
ClaireM
Randi- ***Misty*** Thanks!
Randi
and 38 here on Sept 1st........Ann our cats say hi!!!!!!!!!!!!
Teri Leigh
Got it, Sandra. *smile*
Annie
Damn.. didn't work.... I'm not great with this stuff..
Kristen (Toronto)
Happy Birthday in advance Heather.
ClaireM
Heather- You look great!
Sandra 'Denise' L.
Oh yes Randi, and I hope it doesn't happen to me again.
ClaireM
Any answers to my voice question?
Kimberly
Aww, do I have to say how old I am, no one ever gets it right when they try to guess, can't i just go with thier guesses? (grin)
Sandra 'Denise' L.
Totally Teri?
Annie
I'll be 32 this year... the year of my SRS.. at last....
(How do you put an image in this box?)
Randi
Not that many that I have noticed re: sypmtoms of castration......except that shall we say the will may be there but the part may not respond
Annie
Check this out Claire... can't hurt...
Web URL
Stevie
The question is does it respond if you want it to?
Randi
Claire the voice can be changed through voice training....altering the pitch....the surgery may not work in all cases
Denise !!
Im here Randi !!
Kristen (Toronto)
I guess the lack of sexual response is the downside of transition. Not until SRT can we begin functioning sexually again. And that's several years off. ALASS!!
Randi
let's say Stevie that you may able to but it will take some work
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Clair - I just made a new soundfile and uploaded it as Web URL ... it shows what my voiced used to be like, shifting into what i sound like purely from voice training ...
Annie
Sexual Response? Well... I can't miss what I've never had, Kristen!! :)
Denise !!
38 @ 8-5...
Sandra 'Denise' L.
I guess it was a great idea to include my first name. It may be difficult with Denise's galore.
Kimberly
Hmm, parts that don't work? I dunno, mine never have really. Well, not the way they are supposed to, again part of why I suspect an intersexed condition (and why there was surgury last year)
Randi
I took some spirno a while back for about 4 months.......reactions are rather slow
Kimberly
Geez Annie, exactly what I was trying to say but with much more elegance
Kimberly
Ugh, the reshow of last week's Deep Space Nine is on and it's a repeat.
ClaireM
Annie- Clicked on your URL and had a MAC Attack. The bomb!
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
yeah, I watched it here 7-8PM a nice episode with Quark and all, but not the baby changeling episode I wanted to see!~
Denise !!
Kimberly, surgery ??
Annie
Bomb?... errr.. sorry?
Randi
and that is taking into account other stimuli for lack of a better term
ClaireM
Annie- could you send me the address at my e-mail when you get time. I don't want to crash again.
Randi
just wondering all is there any other gorund we want to go over????
Kimberly
Ahh, yes, I saw that one at 6 tonight. They keep shifting the programming for thier stupid sports, ds9 has been sat at 6 ever since ST:TNG went off, except for these sports things on FOX, then they move it all over the place.
Stevie
The definitions get rather fuzzy. Slow to respond is a far cry from castration. I've also found that I enjoy what I have prior to SRS.
Annie
(Let's see if this works)
img src="
"
Randi
ooops ground
Denise !!
Randi, what di I need to do before I go in frount of the
judge for the paper's ??
ClaireM
I have a real stupid question. I saw a site the other day advertsing some sort of breast cream and hormones. Even showed before and after pics. Is this a rouse or what?
Randi
NICE CAT ANNIE!!!! Stevie...it also depends on what one has done pre-medication
Sandra 'Denise' L.
I've been on a daily dosage of 100mg's of Spiro and 2.5 Premarin for the past 6 months and haven't had any difficulties. The only problem is that my T-level is still too high and I need another increase. The doc said she would recommend an orchidectomy soon to help defeat those little problems.
Kimberly
Yes, I had surgury last year, I wished I had the nerve to tell the doctor to take out the testies or ovatesties or ovary and testie or whatever combo it might be, but i didn't. they went in to repair a problem that prevents me from being able to tuck, and instead it came out wrong and I still can't tuck. I can push everything back, but then I can't wear pants nor bend over (not that I bend over, I usually bend a knee)
Randi
Denise..you need to fill out the forms at the county seat and shcdeule the appointment for that....by the by your area might let you waive the fees for that
Denise !!
Claire, I think A ruse...
If the estragin in the cream was enoulf to make A differance
for us, it woud not be over the counter...
Randi
Kim Understood hon!!! **HUGGGGGGSSSS**
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
in Maryland and Virginia, the county has legal douments available that explain how to file for a legal name change around here. I prepped the document in MS-Word and filed it myself and just paid the court costs. Just call the county and ask for the information - don't mention SRS when you ask how - if anyone wants to know why, saying its for a divorced friend who wants to get her maiden name back after a messy marriage. They don't need the details on the phone when you ask, but may need the real stuff on the form when you file, depending on your state codes
Stevie
Kimberly: Did you have both?
Randi
in Washington State one can have the fee waived
ClaireM
Denise- Kinda what I thought, but didn't know. Thanks.
Annie
I can't get this images thing right....Anyway....I emailed stuff to you Claire
Kimberly
As far as function (hmm, how to be delicate here) I am not capable of erection, I once was but that was teen years. I am capable of orgasm, but it's not the same as it is with an erection (I do remeber what that was like years ago) not to mention the equipment does an (what I call) "partial inversion" am I getting too "down and dirty" I will ease off or stop all together.
Randi
in Minneosta it is $135 for one to have the paperwork changed
Denise !!
Kimberly, my doc say's that he will take tham out for
about 600$...
Randi
no Kim it is clinical and that was ok hon...
Stevie
Did you're SRS change that.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
ClaireM ...
1) Did you grab and listen to that sound file I put up for you Web URL
2) Estrogen works internally, external preps will have very little effect ...
Randi
just as long as we do not go to areas thatt are shall we say are more purient
Sandra 'Denise' L.
I have to say Randi, everything here has been extremely easy for me so far. From the beginning, there has been little obstruction in the way of my transition. Maybe I should be very thankful for the understanding I've received and count myself lucky to have found the road with the least detours.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
same with me, to be frank, thats how I knew the estrogen had castrated me - I masturbated periodically and when things stooped working, I figured it was doing its job.
Kimberly
Did I have both? I really am not sure, all the signs are there, there is even a scar that runs along the nomal fused area from a surgury that I don't remeber, and I have had this as long as I can remeber. As far as other indications, (I hate to repeat this for those who've seen it so many times) but I do have something of a cycle (this is pre hrt) and do bleed on occasion but not monthly.
ClaireM
By the way Randi- moving forward on our SO MO TG support group. One of my close friends heads-up the gay men's group, and has offered to lend a hand on organization. He's also helping the lesbian community start their group.
Randi
true Heather...but a lot of what is being sold as topical treatments are nothing more than snake oil
Teri Leigh
Still here, Sandra?
Kimberly
(don't tell anyone I said this, but my sister also doesn't have a monthly cycle and is as sparatic as I am)
Kristen (Toronto)
Heather, you estimate castration from hormones to take four to six months?
Teri Leigh
Sandra, Meet me in the other room for just a minute, Ok?
Denise !!
Do I need to go to my "Birth county/state"
or, can I do this from the county/state fo my choise ??
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
sorry for the size of the wav file, but I wanted to get a real sample so you could compare the difference in my voice from training-
ClaireM
Heather- Tried it! My Mac bombed. Took a while to get back.
Randi
GOod going CLaire!!!!!! HJust for the record...I still can function....and there is fluid but it is sometimes rather painful if only because there is sometimes the loss of the erection
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
just do it where you have legal residence, Denise!!
Randi
Denise you do so in the county in which you reside
Annie
I could let people hear my voice again if they want, but it's only an example of an unbroken voice. It wouldn't really help anyone trying to "train" their voice....
Sandra 'Denise' L.
Okay Teri!
ClaireM
Heather- Not to worry. I would like to know more about voice training though. Any suggestions on where to find information?
Kristen (Toronto)
Has anyone heard how effective the estrogen patch is? My doctor suggested this as a possible therapy.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
ClaireM the file is www.tgguide.com/hjames/hlj-0297.wav (preceded by the http: // stuff) to grab it, you may want to SHIFT-right-click it to SAVE it to your drive instead of try to play it while online ...
Kimberly
Basically if I could compare sexual function for the last ten years i've been able to orgasm without erections, and it seems to be a much more involved emotional response as compared to teen years with errections, in fact dare I say I think it's almost like I was once able to have a male orgasm and now it's much more like a female one (and better). Oh yeah, and as far as when I bring up the possibility of an intersexed condition with the doctors, they always go in another direction with it)
ClaireM
Thanks Randi- I am sure I will be pestering you for advice in the future *grin*.
Randi
thanks Heather
Annie
Since I have never experienced sexual function, my emotional responses are very intense. I get so much pleasure just being with someone, having them hold me close.. If sex is better... well... I'll know soon...!
Randi
Claire what are sisters for hon!!! HUGGGSS!!!
Annie
P.S. Sorted the cat picture!
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
estrogens are really a personal issue, depending on weight, metabolism and testosterone levels - the proper way to do it (rarely done this way, I should add) is when the doc starts you on a low doseage and raises your levels graduallly each month, taking urine samples to test for the presense of estrogen, when you are taking more than you need, it should show in your urine and they lower the dosage slightly again so your prescript matches your needs. But I have only heard of one person who had it done this way in all the TSs I've known over about 15 years ...
ClaireM
Heather- Got it! Thanks bunches. Try to play it later.
Kimberly
that does sound like the best way, similar to a diet plan I have seen somewhere that actually has test strips to see if you are burning fats or something (I forget)
Randi
Annie more or lees it is the emotional end of the sexual experience that is heightend by the hormones
Annie
Claire, your email just bounced back to me... is it right?
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
ok Claire - as best I can remember, the first part is very close to the 'natural voice' I used for years - the second half is what I sound like normally now, tho I don't usally shift from one to the other like that, I think you'll get the idea.
ClaireM
Has anyone experienced a total lack of sex drive? I find myself disinterested. Still like the hugs and such, but sex doesn't fit in somehow.
Annie
I've always been this way Randi. The hormones didn't alter my psyche to any great extent. The majority was physical stuff.
Kimberly
Am I to understand there are two voices in that sample? I kinda wish I could u/l a sample of just how bad my voice is (not that it's a bad voice, I get more compliments on it than I can stand, I just HATE it)
Randi
I hope we did not scare anyone off with that
Kristen (Toronto)
Actually, this new heightened feminine sexual awareness sounds wonderful.
Randi
not so much a disinterest but a greater need to be shall we say cuddled and held...more or less the physical reassurances, Claire...not they typical male responses
Kimberly
(said that last message before I saw that mesage that answered it for me)
ClaireM
Annie- Checked it. It's typed in right. Should work unless the mail server is down. You might try again a few.
Kristen (Toronto)
Kimberly, I think it's universal that we all hate our voices. I'll bet yours isn't as bad as you think it is.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Kimberly - its me speaking as I used to - then, midway through, I shift to my current voice mode - its dramatic, but gives you an idea of the difference between 'chest voice' monotone, and a higher pitched, semi-breathy throat voice with inflections.
Randi
it is Kristen but there are also the emotional roller coasters as well
Randi
which can be many
Denise !!
Kimberly, is your sister your twin ??(If Im not being
too personal)...
ClaireM
Randi- I also have a great need to be held. To feel safe! It's been way too long. I would love someone to take-over for a while ( be the strong one ), so I could get a little rest. Being a single parent, and in transition is draining.
Randi
Heather has heard my voice and I still have some work to do...but it can be feminie when it is called for
Kimberly
Kristen, I don't know that you should take my opinion on sexual function as I know there is something physically wrong with me, I don't know for sure if I am a male or not, so my experiences might not be comparable. I know my functions aren't, as I've said before I cannot achive an erection, can orgasm without an erection and have clear ejaculate (Ahh, I knew there was something I forgot)
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Your voice is fine, Randi - quite excellent considering you had no professional training! I've been told mine shifts back slightly when I am tired
Denise !!
Heather, how long on the mone's before the facial
change's ??
Randi
Claire my fiance and I have the ssmae nedds due to the fact that we are both M to F and it can be interesting
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
sounds like me after all those shots, Kimberly ... and I used to have a girlfriend and performed ok when I had to, tho it was kind of a struggle to do so, against my nature a bit, but that was back when I was in denial about my true feelings
Kimberly
My sister is ten years younger, it's funny, I have a low testosterone level and she has a high one, yet btoh our brothers (I am the oldest she is the youngest) seem to be normal males, place us all in a line, and it's like I even look betwwen what they do and what she does (including height, she's about 6 inches shorter and they are both 6 inches taller)
ClaireM
Randi- I bet! I told my friend Lona, that if I were wearing a mood ring it would look like a sparkeler!
Randi
Thanks Heather!!!!!!!!Dianne that can occur within a few months just some minor ones will occur first
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Denise, depends on the person. Your skeleton won't change, but fatty deposits will move around, depending on the percent of body-fat you carry. I find when I am real skinny, I don't look as feminine ... so, I carry a few extra pounds to help my facial features look better. At 43, no one expects me to look like a model anyway ...
Kimberly
Yes, but HRT is only day #2 for me. Again all the more reason I suspect intersex even if my doctors are afraid of the word (almost seems taboo to them, like as if I would be opening a pandora's box if it were discovered to be true)
Randi
Claire...the big thing here is that we do know what we can expect becuase we are both being hit with it at the same time
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
The facial changes are VERY subtle - I suspect my face started shifting about 2 years into this, but its very hard to say for sure ...
Kimberly
I have read that skeletal changes can occur if HRT is started young enough, but not changes in prevous development but changes in future development that would have yet to occur
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
For me, my girlfriend of 10 years went through all of this from about 1980 to her surgery with Biber in 85 ... so I've seen this all pretty closeup - we broke up around '90 ...
ClaireM
Heather- I lost 45 lbs. during my devorce. Looked like Lurch! Now I am back where I should be, and a little more. I agree. The extra weight helps round-out those features that need rounding.
Randi
Kim....were you aware of the intersex issue at an early age hon???
Kimberly
Something in the order of 15 year olds will develop their remaining skeletal devolpment as feminine but someone older like 25 or above will see nothing.
Annie
If anyone still hasn't heard me speak, this is it.... Web URL
Randi
cannot tell when the changes here occured....but they are real
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Yes, Kimberly - I tend to agree with you, she started HRT at age 20 ... its hard to say what she would have looked like now without it, but she didn't seem very male when I first met her, maybe 4 months into her transition. I used to say she may have once been a boy, but was never a man ... for those of us that start late in life, after fully developing as males, its a bit different.
ClaireM
Randi- Better than most realationships. The Mars-Venus thing ya know!
Randi
saved it ANnie for later
Annie
Very true Heather. I'm often curious how I would have looked had I been forced to take the testosterone shots!
But even so Heather, your before and after pics were pretty dramatic.
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
well, we technically have 15 mins left to this discussion, I want to be sure everyone got answers to the questions they had ...
ClaireM
Well ladies I learned quite a bit. Appreciate all your input. But this ol' gal needs to sleep. A 5:30 am wake-up. Else gravity wins in the morning. I look forward to the next time. **** Love & Kisses ****
Kristen (Toronto)
How much breast development can you expect from hormone therapy? My mother was a D cup.
Randi
Thanks Claire!!!!!! I do noththink this would have worked if one of us was a GG
Denise !!
Heather, so the facial features wer amoung the last thing's
to began to shift
Annie
Well it's a shame there aren't more post-op people on here, because my question is to do with after the SRS. I'm wondering how things fare say five or six years after surgery. How things look and feel. I'll have to find someone who can tell me what to expect....
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Annie, I have been blessed in life and am just grateful I had the chance to experience life from both sides. It would have been nice to have been born female, but as I wasn't, I can't complain about the successes I had this late. Well, other than the 'spare hair' issue (grin) ...
ClaireM
Randi-GG?
~Heather.B~
Well Better Late than never Hello all.
Just wanted to say I was in tonight...(((Late Checkin))
Kimberly
Randi, I have always suspected something. The unexplained surgical scar was the first tipoff. That I entered puberty at 10 instead of 13 or 14 like everyone else around me made me wonder. All throughout my teen years I would wake up feeling very sick, but it would go away shortly after eating, never had a "wet dream" (and didn't know what it was until someone told me last year!) at 14 I stopped growing in size and I had a very strange shape for a guy (34-24-38) would get honked at from behind (and laugh at the horifyed looks I'd see once they saw me from the front) then at 21 the bleeding started, the genitals changed functionablity. I basically have kept this tight-lipped most of my life because of the influences around me (without goign into too much detail) My father was not the kind of person that I could show anything other than absolute machismo in front of, I knew the mere suggestion of any abnormalities would get his taunts of "are you gay" started again. I stopped denying it and forcing myself to liev as a male at 26 when the chest started growing. The more I have looked back on all this the more I ask myself... If I'm not intersexed then what is wrong with me?
Denise !!
Niter's Claire, Please keep in touch !!
Randi
your breast size after taking the hormones will be about 1 cup size smnaller than you nearest female relative
ClaireM
*****PooooooF******
Kimberly
(did I forget the lack of or extremely slow growth of facial hair in that list)
Randi
Genetic Girl=GG
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Annie - my girlfriend had another cycle of hormone related changes maybe 2 years post ... say, 6-7 years into transition. Further bust development and some other subtle things. Its a shame she had Biber do implants, as she wound up much bustier than she had wanted. I always warn folks to do the SRS and WAIT 2 years for everything to settle down before considering implants, unless they are absolutely flat after 3-4 years of hormones. Biber isn't the best surgeon out there, but her feelings took a few years to heal after the surgery. Orgasmic is possible, if thats part of what you want to know, but its partly the skill of the surgeon, partly your sucess in healing, and partly how developed your nerves/responses are in general ... my understand is if you mentally numb yourself below the belt, so to speak, you may not have much sensation afterwards.
Annie
I didn't have the trouble "down there" Kim, but there's a lot of similarities concerning the teens. It was very hard for me, and I didn't, or couldn't fight back. I was landed in hospital a few times because of beatings, and once got reprimanded by a teacher for turning up at school wearing trousers (Until he was told the facts!). I stopped taking P.E. at 13 because of the changes.
Kimberly
I have heard that about breast size, hmm mom is a B, my sister is a C, wonder what that'll make me?
Randi
understood Kimberly...**HUGGGSS****
Kimberly
Annie, I have the same problem, no fighting ability at all, I have never been the agressor at anything (could explain my radio career)
Annie
Yeah, I've been told about the post-SRS hormone stuff, and I can't wait... I'm a "B" already, will I get a C-cup? hehehe
I know there's a lot of healing and stuff to go through, but I just wonder how long it'll all take for "down there" to feel "normal" again... no pain or awkwardness, you know?
Kimberly
thanks Randi (I know I never say that enough when I should, again my father's influence on me, I am a much more emotional being than I was trained to be)
Randi
about a B hon
Randi
Annie with you it will probaly be a 'C'
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Annie - have you seen Dr. Anne Lawrence's pages? I have a link to them in the library (not at AOL, she moved to mindspring.com recently) She has a lot of good info on surgery, surgeons, various techniques used, etc. She'd probably be delighted to get info about your surgeon if she doesn't have anything on them already.
Kristen (Toronto)
I have learned so much tonight from chatting with everyone here. I have a much clearer idea of what to expect from my transition. I love you all. Thank you very much. It's great to talk for hours with people who understand.
Annie
Yeah, I did see those pages, but they said nothing about UK surgeons or experience.
Kimberly
Annie, the surgury I had "down there" was in no way as dramatic as SRS, and they botched the job, but i ended up with about a week and a half of bedrest, and was somewhat sore for about a month, nothing too unbearable, just something that always reminded me of their being something done.
Randi
here mine is probably about a 'B' plus
Cassie (Victoria B.C.)
Evening there folks.
Annie
OK Kristen, I think we all need to pow-wow with others. We're quite an isolated lot usually.
Randi
De Anda Kristen **HUGGGGSS****
Randi
ooops that is nada
Kimberly
hmm, those cups are from my mother's side of the family, on my father's side most are rather large, I wonder if that'll have any effect.
Randi
Hey Cassie
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
mine is a small B, but with a 'wonder-bra', I do fine. Exercise helps a lot too, something I've slacked off since my 'bikini photo' of last September.
Randi
it will probably be a mix of the two
Annie
Well I gotta go to bed... it's 5am here! Lucky no work tomorrow!
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Annie - thanks so VERY much for being here tonight - I appreciate everyone's input over the evening, and just hope we helped.
Kristen (Toronto)
I have to go folks. Only midnight here, Annie. You poor girl. It's almost time for breakfast for you.
Randi
folks I am going to have to run off here.......have some things to take care of before we hit the hay....hope to see y'all perhaps in a couple of hours
Kimberly
Help, midnight oer here and me having to get up early also. Really not looking forward to getting up for work tomorrow, hmm, this is the first job I've had where it took more than two years for that to happen, everywhere else I have worked usually takes only a couple months before the DREAD of it all sets in. Oh well, I gotta go, Bye All!
Annie
Ok folks.... byeeee ...
-=)-(eather=- Wash,DC
Goodnight, Randi - I'll dload the chat and edit it somewhat as Theresa did with the first one ...
Randi
ANnie **HUGGGSS**** Great seeing you here tonight!!!
Cassie (Victoria B.C.)
Since we seem to be discussing chest sizing. What is a person is a C size before HRT, etc?
Randi
by the by you do have last week's chat re Hairpieces?
Kim
(hmm, I go to sign off and everyone else has already, geez what timing?) I'm hoping for C's, nothing bigger than that. (I dunno, is that too much to pray for?) PooF!